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Renault 11 ts ne parvient pas à accélérer, weber 32 drt

David79

By David79,
in Other cars

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  David79   1

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Hello, my language is Spanish but I am going to write the thread in English, I think it will be better...

 

I am currently trying to fix a Renault 11 ts '89 1.4, it has CNG (GNC in my country) and gasoline: the original carburator was a Weber 32 drt carburetor, we had to change this carburetor several years ago for a Hellux 32 drt, which is the exact replica from Weber, since the latter is not available in my country. The hellux was precisely manufactured to replace the weber 32 drt carburetors.
Nothing against this carburetor, years ago, the first attempt to install it started on the first try!

 

 

As the years go by, the car fails again as it has for as long as I can remember. It has gasoline failures.

 

At first, the carburetor did not start well, when starting it was difficult and it threw a lot of raw gasoline out of the exhaust, a lot of smell, I inferred that it was the diaphragms, I changed the economizer diaphragm, and the one for the pick pump, both new.

I put everything together, when I try it with an open carburetor, it "works" but it does something strange...

It turns on well now, regulates well, but...

 

With the car regulating:
When you accelerate it either from the cabin or carburetor, it "stays" until it turns off if you don't release the accelerator. As it doesn't suck any gasoline. When accelerating I see that the fuel pump is squirting, I understand that this is working, but it doesn't suck any gas after that! and it tends to go off.
ALSO: The little screw at the back that regulates the mixture has no effect! You tighten or loosen it and it doesn't make any change!!

 

With the car running:
Trying driving on the street, I can only accelerate gradually, if I accelerate suddenly I headbutt the windshield incredibly, and if I don't release the accelerator there is never any gas!, until I release the accelerator and it picks up again.

I can gradually accelerate up to third or fourth gear, if I press harder it starts doing the same thing... it stays and doesn't suck gas, I have to release the accelerator
I also noticed that when driving sometimes it stays accelerated, around 1500/1700 rpm, almost reaching 2000...

 

The float chamber has the measurements are 8.5mm closed and 14mm open.


AT CNG it's works very well, no failures when i use it in CNG, only in gasoline..

Can someone please help me fix this? No mechanic has ever solved it for me, I don't know what else to do... thanks in advance...

Edited by David79
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Zorro_X Confirmed Pilot

  Zorro_X   606    22

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Hi, I'm DIego Yourself.

The thread is in English, so I reply in English for consistency, but seriously, we accept Spanish as well!

 

I've also read your answer on youtube, I'll reply here. If you've already checked the others things I've told you to check (heat, air filter & gaskets), the behavior you're describing looks like too much fuel (over-rich, drowning the engine). This could be linked to the size of the carburetor jets. I advise you to first try to use at least the same sizes you had in your previous carburetor, then try to find some documentation on the sizes you really need for your car/engine.
There are some carburetors parts resellers in France you maybe can contact to get information and even to order the jets you need.

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  David79   1

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@Zorro_X

 

Hello!!, I already checked the heat it's ok the hoses work, the air filter is new. So I took out the old Weber carburetor to compare... 

 

This is the position of the jets of the previous carburetor (they are ALSO placed in the current one in the hellux).

 

 

20240504_144439.thumb.jpg.2ffa04a2e4f4d2e6204b2e8199cc51d3.jpg

 

 

Measures:

20240504_144351.jpg.4c29ef9f26f61c98a9802b5fa187b99c.jpg

 

These jets are those of the Weber 32, there is a difference:

20240504_144527.thumb.jpg.7fdf1fb52c9b51c8e12d6b06e2fa330c.jpg

 

those of the hellux 32, although I don't know if this is on purpose by the manufacturer or not...

20240504_144636.thumb.jpg.26636adfb1f7bed0860b39de25945c77.jpg

 

I mean... this carburetor was working very very well months ago... so I doubt it's the jets... unless some mechanic has changed their position but I compared them with several manuals and supposedly they go the way I positioned them now and it continues to fail. ..

 

This is ( NEXT IMAGE ) how the carburetor cover gasket currently looks on the current hellux 32... is this really bad?

I mean, is there a chance that it works the same way or with this image is it completely confirmed that it is the gasket that is causing this????

20240504_151118.thumb.jpg.af1e370ea1e800362bd0ac695a724fbd.jpg20240504_151206.thumb.jpg.23abf79ecd8b6bfc088fa3b4e0aafcb8.jpg

 



 

Edited by David79
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  David79   1

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update: I put the carburetor back (with that broken gasket) and with the carburetor open (without filter cover) we tried it, we accelerated and it stayed until it shut down if we didn't release the accelerator, then we covered almost 3/4 of both mouths and it was noticeable when instant the change... we accelerate and it works, the sudden acceleration is also super compensated, everything works ok... (I also want to say that we notice that when you stop accelerating it becomes very accelerated, 1500/1700 revolutions regulating)

then we remove our hand and it fails again..

 

does this mean something? What would be happening?

Edited by David79
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  Zorro_X   606    22

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When you cover the air imput openings, you're only making it like the starter was pulled: richer mix (more fuel, less air/oxygen). That's why it accelerates "by itself" and seems to work better.

You really need to replace that broken gasket.

The other option is to clean the idle jet (with alcohol, not fuel) which can cause the motor to not hold in idle mode, but it does not seem to be your case.

If you say the entire thing worked well a few months ago, then started to not work anymore, maybe there is some clogged jet or broken membrane in the carburetor. A good inspection & cleaning by disassembling the entire carburetor can maybe help to see what's going on.

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Ermi Sunday Driver

  Ermi   433    5

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I join @Zorro_X about the membrane, and my question might be stupid but what kind of gasoline u use? Normal gasoline (with a few ethanol) or some gasoline with a percentage of ethanol?

Maybe the quality of the new carburetor is sensible to the type of gasoline u using, if u use ethanol as gasoline of course.

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totojest Confirmed Pilot

  totojest   933    17

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I would like to know how the CNG system is set and how it works? (Feel free to share as many pictures as possible to ease the understanding, we are not mechanics here :nosweat:) If, as @Zorro_X suggested, the mixture is too rich, it could be due to some CNG feeding the engine in the meantime with gasoline. And in that case, the issue comes from the CNG system, and not the carburettor.

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  David79   1

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@Zorro_X @Ermi

Thank you for your messages this week I will try to buy the gaskets but I don't know why I think that's not it...
I already tried the jets (Gicleur), we took them out and cleaned them well, they would not be clogged.
I don't know what else to do...

What do you mean by membrane? I don't know where they would be or which ones I need to check. Could you please tell me?

 

 

@totojest I don't think it's the CNG system, the solenoid valve cuts off the CNG flow when it runs on gasoline, we already checked it.

Edited by David79
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  David79   1

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Here I better show you a video, much better than describing it in text, maybe then you can identify something more than me.

It does the same behavior with the lid and filter on. It tends to turn off when you accelerate sharply



VIDEO 1:

 

VIDEO 2: 


VIDEO 3:

 

Edited by David79
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Wolf Driver

  Wolf   85    4

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Hi David,

 

In the first video I can see a fuel jet clogged or not working, in red here :

 

1619213119_jet32drt.png.843204df29366e0650723014165bde9f.png

 

On my weber 32 drt I've had the same problem but after changing the 'gasket' it was working perfectly.

 

It on the same side of the body as the accelerator command :

 

1887070405_1_hr_1024x1024.jpg.9a21dda96a2912c3df770e8202df17ee.jpg

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  Zorro_X   606    22

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@Wolf gasket = joint (pas membrane).


From my side I though I see some fuel going out from the return nozzle (the one in red of the first Wolf's picture), but maybe not enough. You can check the membrane (in red in his second picture) to be sure it is not punctured, so not working as well as needed. It can also be the nozzle clogged as Wolf's says, in this case you'll need to remove the nozzle and push some compressed air inside to try to unclog it...

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  Zorro_X   606    22

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Il y a 3 heures, David79 a dit :

What do you mean by membrane? I don't know where they would be or which ones I need to check. Could you please tell me?

 

In spanish is "membrana", there are 3 of them in your carburetor:

. one for the return nozzles (as shown by Wolf in his second picture),

. one to hold the starter,

. one for the mix air-fuel management, which has a difficult access. Please, take a look at this full tutorial Weber 32DRT , you'll see how to remove it at the end of this page https://www.diegoyourself.com/index.php?article=mecanique_carbu_weber32drt&page=8

 

Considering those membranes, only two of them  could be responsible of your problem, the one for the return nozzle (as mentioned by Wolf), and the mix fuel-air one.

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  David79   1

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Hello @Wolf, I understand what you're saying, maybe it's not very noticeable in the video even if you try to focus, I can assure you that a jet does come out, the diaphragm of the spike pump is new, you say it's still not enough?

 

20240505_153333.thumb.jpg.9f4910b7004ead71f85ae96cac75f5a0.jpg

 

 

@Zorro_X the diaphragm of the economizer pump (the one you mentioned) is also new, I even followed your video to change it.

 

The truth is that I don't know anything else to think about, the diffuser (not the pump injector) does not deliver fuel when the accelerator asks it to,

you can compare with this video how the diffuser works (also the fuel jet is visible too), compare this video with mine there is a notable difference between diffusors 

 

 

it has a specific failure at approximately 2000rpm, i found a new gasket that goes in the body and cover of the carburetor i will try to replace it tomorrow, also I'm going to buy a "engines starter spray" to see if it sucks air from somewhere in the base, but in parallel with all this, I am beginning to doubt that it is the distributor??? it's possible?

Edited by David79
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  David79   1

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@Zorro_X @Wolf
 

updates:

After trying several things, I put a new gasket between the carburetor cover and the body.

 

What caught my attention was what @Wolftold me about the injector nozzle of the jet pump, I disassembled it and checked its behavior, when I moved the throttle butterfly i could see gasoline backing up into the O-ring of the nozzle, I don't have an O-ring new (black circular rubber) so I played around, turned it around and tried to keep the beak as still as possible.

 

At the first attempt with the new gasket and the moved nozzle, towards the same failure... but now with something new, a whistle!! haha.., I don't know if the new gasket should settle? and then give it another squeeze, or the gaskets at the base ended up breaking, I'm going to buy those this week.

 

So I disassembled everything again, I MOVED THE NOZZLE AGAIN, I left it tighter, I put everything back together, and WALA, it worked! Now I accelerate and it doesn't turn off, the diffuser can clearly be seen as it diffuses gasoline.
It continues whistling, but now the injector jet is more constant, it is seen that it was not reflowing and was sending well through the nozzle, I think it is the injector nozzle reflowing through the o-ring, I should get a new one and check it to confirm this behavior...

Edited by David79
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  David79   1

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Hello @Zorro_X and @Wolf and to everyone and other people who wish to participate in the thread.

Unfortunately the problem persists, I thought it was the spike pump but no... also, if it were ONLY the spike pump, when accelerating little by little it would not fail , since this way you ignore the spike pump and the carburator jets will act gradually, and that doesn't happen either. If I accelerate gradually, it reaches approximately 2000/2500 revolutions and it turns off if I don't release the accelerator, or it fails.
 

Buy new: fuel pump pre-filter, and return tank. And the problem remains the same.

 

Could someone help me continue checking what it could be?

 

list of things I did:

-Clean the carburetor jets.
-New pick pump diaphragm.
-New economizer pump diaphragm (below the throttle plate).
-New gasket that goes in the middle of the carburetor cover and body.
-I arranged the base joints and made sure with a motor starter spray that it did not suck air.
-Buy new fuel pump pre-filter.
-Buy new return tank.

 

I leave you a photo of the return tank, is it normal for it to be full? 
 

20240510_180745.jpg

Edited by David79
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  Zorro_X   606    22

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Hi,

I'm sorry, I've not much more ideas... Maybe use a bottle filled with fuel directly connected to the carburetor to be sure there are no problems with the fuel pump (working properly) neither the pipes between the fuel tank and the pump (not clogged)?

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ThomasL Raising Star

  ThomasL   230    2

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Hi,

 

Did you check if the float and needle work properly?

Is the level good?

You can find the details in the MR CARB W.

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